Red Bull to race with Nissan engines in 2016 (6th Update)
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| Ricciardo jokes with Marko. Are they getting laugh about beating Honda next year with the Nissan brand? |
Red Bull's Christian Horner recently confirmed the Milton Keynes team has signed a deal for power units, which will ensure the team is on the grid in 2016.
He couldn't however confirm the source of the engines, nor would he comment on the branding.
It is however believed Red Bull will announce a deal next week to continue using Renault engines, but they will likely be rebranded following a rather public spat between the two companies.
That rebranding could see Nissan (rather than Infiniti) enter the sport according to paddock speculation, to compete head-to-head with brand rival Honda.
Renault and Nissan are both headed up by CEO Carlos Ghosn after entering into a strategic partnership. Together they own eight major brands, including Red Bull sponsor Infiniti.
Red Bull will lose Infiniti sponsorship at the end of the year, thus giving Renault very little reason to continue supplying Red Bull.
However with Ghosn set to give the go ahead for a Renault works team, via a takeover of Lotus, the French manufacturer doesn't want to lose the extra data a second team provides for development.
Nor does it want to lose the roughly £20 million income, which Red Bull will be forced to pay to continue using their engines.
However with such a toxic relationship, Renault are keen to distance themselves from the team. By rebranding the engines Nissan, Renault manages to do exactly that, whilst keeping the positive aspects of the relationship alive.
Meanwhile Horner's recent comments might just back up the speculation.
The Briton claims the deal will go ahead, even if Renault decides to pull the plug on its Formula 1 involvement.
"We have a signed contract for an engine, the details of which I hope to be able to announce within a week," he said.
"The situation is clear in that we have an agreement for next year. I would like to be able to tell you what that is, but unfortunately I can't."
Horner also directed a comment toward McLaren chairman Ron Dennis, who vetoed a potential Red Bull/Honda link-up.
"It will be [called] something quite good. I don't think Ron Dennis will be very happy, but he hasn't been very happy recently."
If it's called Honda, that will certainly upset Dennis. But that seems incredibly unlikely at this stage. What else could upset Dennis? What about Honda's major Japanese rival, beating them on track? Surely that would raise some feathers! GrandPrixTimes.com
11/20/15 As first rumored by AR1 before anyone else, Red Bull appears set to stay in formula one with Renault power in 2016.
Earlier, the energy drink company risked dropping off the grid amid its crumbling relationship with the French carmaker and failed negotiations to secure an alternate deal.
"Quite a few engine suppliers said no, which is a shame," Australian driver Daniel Ricciardo was quoted as saying on Friday by Speed Week.
"But I can understand their reasoning: we have a pretty good chassis so they're probably a little scared of us."
It has been an uncertain and speculation-filled period for the energy drink-owned outfit, but it appears now that Red Bull is staying with Renault – to run unbranded or perhaps Infiniti-labeled power units – while Toro Rosso moves on to Ferrari.
"Both teams will be there next year," confirmed Dr Helmut Marko. "Exactly how it will look, I can't talk about at the moment so I ask for your patience."
It appears that both deals will be for one year only, as Red Bull is keen to leave the grip of the car manufacturers and link up with the sport's new independent supplier from 2017.
Reportedly to be paid EUR 30 million next year, Renault seems happy to keep working with Red Bull.
"For me it has always been clear that we do not want to burn bridges," Renault Sport F1's Cyril Abiteboul is quoted as saying.
"It is no secret that we want to catch up, and I think you can always do better with two teams rather than one," he added, undoubtedly referring to Red Bull and also Renault's own plans to buy Lotus and run it as a works outfit.
As for when the news will be made official, Ricciardo suggested it is coming soon.
"Basically, Dr Marko has confirmed that we will be on the grid next year, so I'll have a job which is good news. I guess around Abu Dhabi time we will have something to announce.
"I can't promise anything, but in the coming week, we should know more," he added.
11/11/15 (GMM) Pending a green light from owner Dietrich Mateschitz, Red Bull will stay in formula one with Renault engines next year.
That is the claim of Germany's Sport Bild, and if true it will mean the end of the engine supply crisis that threatened to push the energy drink stable off the grid.
One by one, alternative plans to run Mercedes, Ferrari and even Honda power next year were ruled out, meaning efforts were re-focused on finding a solution involving Red Bull's existing partner Renault.
However, the French carmaker is reportedly poised to announce its Lotus buyout and return to full works team status later this month in Abu Dhabi.
So the Red Bull solution, according to Sport Bild correspondents Ralf Bach and Bianca Garloff, will probably involve the Renault 'power units' being re-branded as Infiniti in 2016.
And that may just be a one-year, stop-gap solution, before the FIA's plan to introduce a parallel engine formula based on IndyCar’s twin-turbo V6 and involving an independent supplier hits the paddock.
Some have suggested the affordable 'client engine' idea is simply a complex political ploy by Jean Todt and Bernie Ecclestone.
But Red Bull's Dr Helmut Marko told Der Spiegel that he had a "very long and constructive discussion" with the FIA president in Mexico and "he (Todt) has promised us" that the parallel engine regulations will be introduced.
Marko said that Red Bull will accept one more year in the F1 midfield as the team takes a "longer term perspective" of the unfolding situation.
All that is missing now is for Mateschitz to rubber-stamp the Infiniti-branded Renault deal for 2016, which he is expected to do before November 20.
Toro Rosso, meanwhile, appears set to switch to 2015-specification Ferrari power.
Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner said recently he is confident Mateschitz wants to stay in F1.
"He recognizes the commitment and the skill and determination of the team," he said. "He wants to find a solution going forward, he is committed to helping that and behind the scenes is involved in numerous discussions to try and facilitate that," Horner added.
11/06/15 (GMM) Mario Illien has played down speculation he will play a central role as Red Bull ends its engine supply crisis and races into 2016.
With Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren-Honda declining to help the embattled former champions, it is suggested a novel solution to Red Bull's problem has been devised.
It will reportedly involve Red Bull basing its 2016 engine on the basic architecture of the so-called Renault 'D-spec' power unit that will make its debut in Brazil next weekend.
Giving credence to the theory is the fact that it is believed the 'D-spec' will debut in one Red Bull car at Interlagos, while sister team Toro Rosso will not run the new specification at all.
That could be due to the fact that Toro Rosso is apparently poised to switch from Renault to 2015-specification Ferrari power for the 2016 season. It is believed Ferrari did not offer the same deal to Red Bull Racing.
So the rumor goes that Red Bull has a done a deal to run an 'unbranded' Renault V6 engine next year, completing the package with its own energy recovery systems and the input of Illien, chief of the Ilmor engine company.
It has been suggested the Renault 'D-spec' involves the technology developed by Illien, with an intellectual property dispute between Renault and Red Bull perhaps explaining the long delay in the debut of specification.
Indeed, it is believed the 'D spec' was taken to both Austin and Mexico, but not used. However, Renault and Red Bull have explained that the conditions – rain in Austin and altitude in Mexico – were simply not right.
And Auto Motor und Sport claims Toro Rosso is not using the 'D-spec' simply because it would require an expensive tweak to the car's cooling package.
Illien, meanwhile, denied any knowledge of an IP dispute between Red Bull and Renault.
"I know nothing about it and I also have no idea what upgrades Renault has put in its modified engine," he said.
"I can't image that a big company like Renault would secretly install my developments."
What the well-known Swiss engineer will not rule out, however, is that Ilmor might be interested in the FIA's new plans for a parallel 'client engine' in 2017.
Indeed, Ilmor is considered a front runner for the contract as it already supplies a Chevrolet-badged, twin-turbo V6 engine for the IndyCar series.
"I will look at what the tender says and decide what to do then," Illien said.
11/05/15
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| Dietrich, who 'jumped from an airplane and tried to buy a parachute on the way down,' will now get into the F1 engine manufacturing business |
This rumor, first uncovered by AR1.com, is close to becoming 'fact.' Probably the biggest F1 controversy for a number of years has finally ended. Having cancelled their engine contract for 2016 with Renault without a replacement partner, Red Bull Racing have been accused of 'jumping from an airplane and trying to buy a parachute on the way down.' This has led to the widely held view that Red Bull Racing could actually withdraw from Formula One at the end of this year.
The bitterness that has been expressed between Renault and RBR senior personnel has left most observers to believe that the relationship is terminal. And when the normally sanguine Adrian Newey states that, "Unfortunately, our relationship with Renault is pretty terminal – there's been too much of a marriage breakdown, so we have no engine," then the only conclusion to be drawn is – that's that.
However, TJ13 reports that Red Bull Racing will not be leaving Formula One in 2016. They have in fact tonight secured an engine to power the RB12 at what for many is the 11th hour and 59th minute. Then again, given TJ13's exclusive reporting on the new engine facility constructed by Red Bull Racing in building 9 at their HQ, maybe this is not so big a surprise.
RBR will be running the Renault 12 token upgraded engine in Brazil, having passed on using it in both Austin and Mexico. This power unit upgrade has been the result of a joint effort between Renault and the Red Bull appointed consultant Mario Illien. TJ13 has learned that the reason Red Bull have refused to run this PU at the past two races is because no agreement on joint intellectual property had been finalized.
Mario Illien, the former Ilmor engine guru, has been working in the new Milton Keynes building 9 for over a year and assisting Renault in solving fundamental design flaws in their F1 power unit. Much of this revolves around the engine block.
The result is that Renault have agreed to manufacture and supply Red Bull Racing for the near future, the co-designed 12 token upgraded ICE, whilst Red Bull will supply their own ERS components for the F1 power unit.
Further, it has been agreed between the parties that Red Bull will be able to develop the ICE further in their building 9 complex, without reference to Renault, and that intellectual property of the base unit is jointly owned. Disagreements between Renault and RBR over the intellectual property of the 'co-developed' PU has been the reason RBR have been desperately seeking a temporary engine partner for 2016. These matters appear to be now resolved.
The Red Bull Racing power unit for 2016 is expected to be branded as Infiniti, should the Renault-Nissan agree on this. If not, the engine development costs going forward will be met by Red Bull and another partner will be credited.
TJ13 has been informed that Red Bull Racing are already confident they will start the 2016 season with a revised version of the current Renault 12 token upgraded ICE, with a power unit producing in excess of a 40 BHP advantage.
Renault will now complete the acquisition of Lotus to run a 'works team’ in 2016, and so let battle royal commence between the French F1 engine manufacturer maestro's of the past 30 years verses the new kids on the block – who by the way said they were never going to be an F1 engine manufacturer.
Then again, when you've pissed off everyone else, 'needs must' – is the only conclusion.
As an aside, does the Red Bull engine solution now kill off the Jean Todt and Bernie Ecclestone’s idea of an independent F1 engine supplier. RBR are sorted, 'crisis over.' thejudge13
At the same time, Renault's plans to complete its split with Red Bull and continue in formula one next year as a 'works team' now appear back on track.
The delay in the completion of the Lotus buyout had triggered rumors the deal could collapse, but reports now suggest the first Renault staff are now starting work at Enstone.
And it is believed the destination of Bob Bell, who has now left his role as technical consultant at Manor, is among the top management of the new Renault works team.
Auto Hebdo, a French publication, claims that Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn is poised to rubber-stamp the Lotus deal this week, preceding an official announcement.
The report claims Renault may then decide to continue with Lotus team branding, regarding 2016 as a year of transition with Pastor Maldonado and Jolyon Palmer at the wheel.
10/24/15
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| Christian Horner |
(GMM) Suddenly, almost everything is back on the table as the crisis-struck Red Bull plots a course to stay in formula one, but AR1.com sources in Europe insist both Red Bull teams will run with Renault power in 2016. However, here is the scuttlebutt in the Austin paddock.
Mercedes power, however, is one possible exception, as Toto Wolff has repeatedly and consistently ruled out supplying the energy drink-owned camp.
Asked on Friday why he was smiling, boss Christian Horner joked: "I'm just very upset to hear Toto is ill and couldn't make it, that his helicopter couldn't fly."
The Briton might be forgiven for the jibe, as it is arguably his toughest moment in the decade or so of running Red Bull Racing on Austrian billionaire Dietrich Mateschitz's behalf.
Horner admits Mateschitz is still thinking about pulling both Red Bull and Toro Rosso out.
"Of course it is (an option), it's his team at the end of the day," he said.
Mateschitz, however, is also involved in helping to end the crisis positively.
It is rumored the crisis began amid Red Bull's talks with Volkswagen about a F1 project for 2018. Out of patience with Renault, the team simply needed a stopgap engine for two years.
Then diesel-gate struck.
"Of course there was – as is publicly known – discussion with the VW Group, which obviously … with their current issues probably formula one is the last thing on their mind" now, Horner admitted.
What is left for Red Bull is intense speculation, but at least plenty of rumors have returned to the paddock, where earlier quitting the sport seemed the most likely scenario.
Now, even a Horner-led management takeover – along the lines of what Ross Brawn did when Honda pulled out in 2008 – is not being ruled out, nor is a new 2.2 liter V6 engine formula for F1 in 2017, with Cosworth and Ilmor reportedly interested.
"I believe that discussions of other shareholding or change of shareholding, they're not applicable at the moment," Horner said when asked about the management buyout rumors.
"The focus is purely on finding a solution to our engine predicament, that we can move forward for next year and the future."
Reports on Friday suggested that amid renewed talks with Renault, an option to become the second Honda-powered team is also very real.
Horner doesn't deny that either.
"As we sit here now," he answered when asked about Honda, "nothing is fixed."
It is believed McLaren, clearly the Honda works team, is furious at the suggestion of sharing with Red Bull, but amid the disastrous season suffered by McLaren-Honda in 2015, nothing can be ruled out.
But Horner also admitted that a 2015-spec Ferrari engine "may well" be the solution, and he also confirmed that the current contract with Renault has not yet been officially dissolved.
10/22/15 AR1.com sources have learned that Red Bull and Renault have kissed and made up, and both Red Bull and sister team Toro Rosso will race with Renault power units, probably branded as Infiniti, in 2016.
The contract they had thru 2016 was terminated by Red Bull. That caused the problem. Now they have gone back to Renault, and resigned. Not the best management decision to terminate the contract without a replacement in place.
We await the announcement.
It will be interesting to see whether the Red Bull teams get the same spec engine as the 'works' Lotus Renault team gets. Renault is buying Lotus. Mark C. reporting for AR1.com